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Die Herren.
Gentlemen - please accept my poor German. 

Ich bin neue zu PSP und versuche, den „Items/Artikel“ zu verstehen.

Betrachten Sie das Situation: Wir haben eine Maschine (+1000 Bestandteile) für den Europäische Market. Die Maschine wird mit einigen elektrischen Teilen ausgerüstet (Motoren, Messplättchen, Auslöser, usw.). Wir haben die Maschine im Inventor konstruiert. Im Productstream sind die Stücklistenübergabe und Multilevel Teilliste automatisch gebildet. Das ist Standard Productstream Funktion.
Aber jetzt möchten wir die gleiche Maschine nach US schicken. keine Zeichnungen werden geändert, aber nur die elektrische Ausrüstung muss eine andere Spezifikation haben.
Jedoch Die einzige erforderliche Änderung ist auf der Teilliste. So wie sollten wir dieses Situationen behandeln? Ich möchte nicht einen kompletten neuen Satz Zeichnungen herstellen, nur die Teilliste.
Sind wir die einzige Firma, die diese Ausgabe gegenüberstellt?

Consider the situaion:
We have a machine (+1000 components) to be sold here in Europe. The machine is equipped with several electrical parts (Motors, Feelers, Actuators, etc). Machine is created within Inventor, and documentation consists of 240 2D drawings. After design, we automatically create Items, Partslist, and multilevel partslists. This is standard PSP functionallity.
But now we want to send excactly the same machine to US. All drawings are excatly the same. However electrical equipment must have another specification because of a different voltage. The only required change is on the partslist.

So how should we handle this scenario? I do not want to create a complete new set of drawings, just to get a new partslist.
Are we the only company facing this situation?

Thanks in advance from Denmark.

[Diese Nachricht wurde von cadmageren am 16. Okt. 2008 editiert.]

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Good evening cadmageren,

I'll try it in english (if you cannot understand I'll write it in german again  )
the electrical equipment is not drawed in inventor, is this right? So these electrical parts are not shown in the list of the engineering documents. In this case they will also not be shown in the part list.

You can manually edit the part list and add additional parts, there is already a special category for these parts (you could even add some special categories).
So all you have to do is to create 2 parts, let's call them "main parts". These parts are the "machine europe" and the "machine us". Both of these parts contain the part of the whole machine. Additionally the part "machine europe" contains the electrical parts for europe, the part "machine us" instead contains the electrical parts for the us shipment.

It would be kind of this, take care of the part-numbers:
PART-001 "machine europe"
--PART-099 "machine" (referenced to engeneering document ENG-020)
----PART-080 "part1" (referenced to engineering document ENG-001)
----PART-079 "part2" (referenced to engineering document ENG-002)
--PART-078 "motor 1"
--PART-077 "feeler 1"
...

PART-002 "machine us"
--PART-099 "machine" (referenced to engeneering document ENG-020)
----PART-080 "part1" (referenced to engineering document ENG-001)
----PART-079 "part2" (referenced to engineering document ENG-001)
--PART-068 "motor 2"
--PART-067 "feeler 2"
...

This is just an example how it could work. If your problem is as easy as you described it should work. But you have to pay attention if the machine will be changed because in the part list you change not only one but two parts: PART-001 and PART 002.

I hope I could help a little bit.
Have a nice evening.

P.S. Your german is quite good, I hope my english is too 

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An Optimist Is A Person Who Has Not Been Shown All The Facts Yet!!!

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CopyItemStructure.JPG

Wolgang

Thanks very much for your constructive input. I have considered your suggestion before, but I find how do I handle a multilevel Item structure?

Best regards
Michael Christoffersen

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PartList.jpg

hello Michael,

now I see the problem. This is quite a difficult problem with many points to take care of.

Spontaneously I would say the only way is to generate seperat Items for each assembly including electrical parts. Referring to your drawing this would mean the following:
Sub Assembly 2.2 needs two Items with seperat item-number. Causing to the different parts it have to be seperat Items.
The motor-items can be linked to these items manually.
As for sub assembly 2.2 exist two Items, also sub assembly 2 has to be splittet into 2 items, machine xxx.1 and machine xxx.2 are already two items I think.
Have a look at the attachment.

So would have to make a copy of the Item machine xxx.1 and manually replace the electrical parts with new Items. The similar Items like ITEM-0003 and ITEM-00023 are referring to the same drawing ENG-0092.

AND NOW THE BIG "BUT":
This is just a suggestion how it could work. The problem ist that I'm not familiar with the whole system of you. The question is when using this suggestion will you find all your data again in the future? What will happen if you change a drawing, there will always the so Items referring to it that you will have to check. Is this okay for you? There might be a lot other details that may be influenced by this solution.

Be aware of the fact that this is a very difficult problem to deal with. You can get lots of good ideas especially in this forum but I alway have doubt wether one can get a perfekt solution for this kind of question. Depending on how you use the system and lots of other details concerning your organisation of data a solution could be good or bad.
So just think of all the ideas yout get and check out if they will be working also long-dated before you realise them.

Hope I could give you some help 
Good evening, Wolfgang

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An Optimist Is A Person Who Has Not Been Shown All The Facts Yet!!!

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Dear Wolfgang.

I think you are right in your approach, but even though the task is very complex - seen from PSP. It is an everyday, very simple scenario from a User point of view.
Right now we are maintaining our partslists in Excel Sheets. The sample task takes less than 10 minutes using Excel. Using PSP, it will take considerable longer time. I think it will be difficult to convince the organization that this is a complex and time consuming task.

Basically I already knew it was a very complex task in PSP, because I have already asked our supplier.

So my question to this forum is: Is my company the only one who is facing these requirements?
Would it not be nice to have "Variant" functionallity in PSP:
Part-001244.0000    Base Item
Part-001244.0001    Variant of Base Item, using the same linked files, but different metadata.
Part-001244.0002    ...
Variants could also contain information about different paint specifications etc...
Only Base Item should be automatically updated by the 'CAD Update' functionallity.

/Michael Christoffersen

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Hello Michael,

what you call meta data should be the items that are referenced to the engineering documents. So what you need is a function that copies a whole part list of items generating new items.

I have to say that I am not up to date with the functionality of PSP. In erlier times copying an item including partlist meant to create one new item referring to the original part list.
You have to check out wether the function to copy all items of the list is included in PSP.
If not it should be no problem for your supplier to include this function. It's just a reading of the part list, creating the new items and linking them to the drawings.

When included the creation of the items is not the problem. But you still have to go through the part list und replace the variable parts manually. How should PSP know which parts you want to replace with which other parts? I guess this is the work you do in Excel now. You also will have to do this in PSP.
Although in PSP would be the possibility to do some programming that might automize also this part....

Ciao, WolfgangE

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An Optimist Is A Person Who Has Not Been Shown All The Facts Yet!!!

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Well Wolfgang

Finally you are understanding my problem:
In PSP, it is not possible to link two Items to the same document

Best regards
Michael Christoffersen

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Hello Michael,

normally I would simply say "yes, that's the way it is and it's a good way", normally it makes sense that multiple links of this kind are not allowed.

In your special case it could make sense. It also would be no problem to customize PSP in a way that these links will be possible. But I will not recommend this as a solution here. I go back to what I said before: this problem is too complex for me to simply say make these links possible. I would need to know much more of the way you use PSP and the organisation of your data.

I recommend to talk to suppliers that also make programming for PSP to analyze your installation and find a solution for you. There are many way to work with PSP and endless possibilities to integrate new working processes.

I'm sorry to say that I personally can't contribute more at this point  

Greetings, WolfgangE

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An Optimist Is A Person Who Has Not Been Shown All The Facts Yet!!!

[Diese Nachricht wurde von WolfgangE am 23. Okt. 2008 editiert.]

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Dear Wolfgang.

Thanks for your reply 

My question here in this forum, is not related to the technical programming, which I am sure my very qualified supplier can provide.

But rather, why this is a "special case". Is it not something every draftsman is facing every day?

Are there not any other than Herr Wolfgang who whishes to participate in this interresting discussion 

/Michael Christoffersen

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Hello Michael,

In PSP you can copy a Item with Bill Of Material, thats a standard Function. You only change the Items in the Bom of the new Item.
Use the Workflow to fix the Item and Bom

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Gruß Gerd 

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Hi Gerd
Thanks for your input

This was also what I intended, however when I copy the Item, the attached drawings are not linked to the new copy.

/Michael Christoffersen

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Hi Michael,

Thats correct, when you copy an Item PSP don´t link the attached Documents to the new Item, because in Standard PSP you have a 1:1 Relation , Wolfgang have said before.
A little Idea: Create a PDF or DWF File of the Source and Link it to the new Item.

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Gruß Gerd  

Nice Place in Danmark where you live, near Rinkobing Fjord i think.

[Diese Nachricht wurde von Gerd.A am 24. Okt. 2008 editiert.]

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